Fans Forum Meeting – Britannia Stadium
Greater Manchester Police
1. Meeting with GMP
Todays meeting was an invitation only, as we had the GMP present in regards to the incident at the Bolton away match, so people who were involved in that were invited
-Tony Scholes started off the meeting in introducing Ian Hopkins, and Jim Liggett who was the gold commander on the day and involved in the decisions that were made.
-Tony thanked the members of the GMP for attending as the Stoke fans will now see it is being taken seriously and being looked into.
-Thanked for the commitment from the top of the police force in attending to answer our questions, and then handed over the meeting to fans forum chairman Gareth Ekin
-Gareth was overseeing the match on the day with the GMP, and at the match everything went well, he went onto say that when he arrived home he started to get numourous emails from fans in regards to the treatment of them from Victoria to Piccadilly station he asked the question to the GMP as to what they felt happened on that day
Ian Hopkins(from the GMP) went onto answer
-He firstly told us all that he himself is a football fan and season ticket holder, and understands that most people and families etc do go to football with no intention of causing any trouble, but there is still a minority that want to cause trouble and harm.
There were risks concerned with Stoke fans walking across Manchester city centre, and that was based on intelligence, internet etc, this information can be given to then very late, so he stated they then have to change their plans accordingly,and they use a strategy that hopes to be safe and have limited impact on the local community.
-He went onto say that last year after the section 27 incident, he had met with MalcolmClark, of the fsa, as stoke wanted to start on a new footing, as our club had a reputation with the GMP based on historic data ie. The Wigan match in 2004, he admitted that he felt as fans we were no longer like that and we had changed.
-He said that they needed to change their mindset and tactic of commanders, and that he wanted to be “open and transparent,and accommodate for our actions”
-On the day there were a known approx 30 at risk supporters.
-At half time they found out that the trains had changed and so then had to work out how 400 Stoke fans would get from the Reebok stadium to piccadily station, and to do it without there being any trouble from the “risk” fans, as Manchester was very busy due to the derby the following day.
-At this point Jim Liggett took over the conversation as he was one of the officers on the ground actually involved
-He said out of the approx 400 fans,150 left from Victoria, and they were left with 250 to get to Piccadillysafely,at this point he did apologise as he said they did “box the fans in”, he said he was sorry for this, but in the station with the great support we get from our fans it became very loud,he said that people did go to the toilets and were talking friendly to some of the police officers
-They went on to say that the complaints they had where fans were saying they were pushed and screamed and shouted at, if these were found proven then action will be taken as they are not the sort of people they want in their organisation
-All people who have complained should receive a letter with the name of an officer dealing with it, this can take time, as evidence needs to be gathered and they need to speak to all involved.
-It was then said that the police then proceeded to take the stoke fans to the train station from Victoria, Virgin apparently wouldn’t allow more than 2 carriages to be used for football fans due then thinking fans are boisterous and noisy and that it wouldn’t be fair on other passengers, and that complaints regarding that need to be taken up with the operating companies (virgin)
-He went on to say that police vehicles with lights on (at this point it was unsure whether sirens were on too) drove along side fan for their safety,as they were walking into oncoming traffic
-The reason for taking fans the long way round and avoiding the city centre was to avoid trouble in bars and pubs as Man U already had a lot of fans in the city for their match the following day, the reason we were given for he vans speeding off past people towards the end is so that they could wait by notorious pubs as our fans went by, so there was no trouble
-The GMP said at this point “it was all done with the best intentions, but we admit we got it wrong” and went onto say that there is a lot of learning to be done by the GMP, and that there was some totally unacceptable behaviour from some officers, and said that as fans the support we get from our club, Stoke City is excellent, as Tony was on the phone at 8.15 on the Monday morning asking why and what went wrong
-The new tactics with BTP and GMP are to allow fans that cause no problems to carry on as they would with no hassle, and to monitor the problem fans more
-It is being asked of Steve Thomas of BTP why it was that the train went into Victoria and not to Picadilly as planned?
-They then went on to say that today they have been upfront with the club, but to say sorry and admit that part of the operation they got wrong, but they have briefed commanders on the new tactics
They then asked if anyone had any questions
-Most of the complaints were about individuals, “rank happy” and they tarred everyone with the same brush, some fans were NOT allowed to step out of the “box” to go to the toilet, Mr Rawlinsons complaint was due to the fact his 15 year old son was pushed so fell out of “the box” and an officer grabbed him, Mr Rawlinson then did what he said any parent would and challenged the officer, not in an aggressive way, he didn’t swear, but he was annoyed as the police were grabbing his son when he had done no wrong, for doing this and asking the officer to let go of his son Mr Rawlinson was arrested, taken away and received a fixed penalty notice and in all his years has never been in any trouble with the police, and he now has a criminal record
-The answer to this was that a lot of the force are young and inexperienced, and this needs to be addressed
-Brian asked why BTP and Virgin didn’t use common sense to know that the 400 fans that had bought tickets would not fit into 2 carriages
-That was something needing to be queried with Virgin
We were then shown some footage courtesy of the council, on the footage we could hear that the sirens indeed were on, so for people stood by the vans, would have been uncomfortable
-Gareth asked how the police plan on changing mindsets of officers who see all Stoke fans as trouble makers
-In answer to that the GMP said they give total commitment and will be briefing staff
Tony Scholes then thanked the GMP for taking part, and for holding their hands up and saying they got it wrong on this occasion
Malcolm of the fsa asked if it would be of benefit to have a meeting before the Man City match, as it would be useful as communication is the key,GMP agreed this was a good idea
-on boxing day there will be NO train services and this was announced in the meeting, so fans will not be able to use the trains on boxing day as a way of travel
A.O.B
-No stewards on the car parks parking people,and apparently there should be, and people parking on south car park, with trent ticket
-will be looked into
-It was asked why the road was closed for the cycle event but unable on a match day, this was because it was a rolling road closure and the council will not close the road due to other businesses
-Away tickets, why is it that if you are one of the first to be allowed to buy a ticket, as a loyal fan, then you may get a seat worse than when they go on general release?
-this is not down to Stoke, the home club have a priority as to how they want their tickets sold, and there is nothing Stoke can do about that, Stoke apply for the away tickets as a percentage, if the demand is there they will apply for more.
-Standing at away matches was brought up as people who go to that away matches don’t want to stand up all the way through, but if someone in front of them does then they have to as does the person behind and so on,people who tak children and people who cannot stand cannot see the match, it was asked if there could be something doen of the club, in asking the fans that do stand, not to.
-this will be looked into
-Smoking in the stadium, could we have an update
-Tony Scholes said the club would have a renewed effort on this
-It was asked why were scfc directs postage costs abroad so high, a man from Australia wanted a dvd, and postage was £20,so his friend bought it and posted it for less than £10
-rates will be checked
-It was asked if there is any way that if someone cannot make a match who has a season ticket can then give that ticket back to the club, so it can be resold, so there aren’t empty seats?
-Will be looked into, but as the numbered ticket isn’t known until the day it could be difficult to do
